jmoore32fever
New member
I personally know several people who work for the Ford plants here around cincy, Ohio these are guys that are regular union workers with highschool educations in the past they all made over $100k a year
Headlines
Auto workers pay and benefits
- Thread starter gerritm
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MarylandMark
Charter Member
Yet another thread...
:beatdeadhorse5:
:beatdeadhorse5:
Offshore Ginger
New member
My wife has been a Respiratory Therapist for over 30 years and i know what you are saying , money , school ,and all those years involved getting her degree and to have unskilled labor make so much more for twisting two bolts .
jayboat
Banned
Here's how the wage thing breaks down. It's more complex than just an hourly wage.
Here's a piece of the article:
Let’s start with the numbers. The $73-an-hour figure comes from the car companies themselves. As part of their public relations strategy during labor negotiations, the companies put out various charts and reports explaining what they paid their workers. Wall Street analysts have done similar calculations.
The calculations show, accurately enough, that for every hour a unionized worker puts in, one of the Big Three really does spend about $73 on compensation. So the number isn’t made up. But it is the combination of three very different categories.
The first category is simply cash payments, which is what many people imagine when they hear the word “compensation.” It includes wages, overtime and vacation pay, and comes to about $40 an hour. (The numbers vary a bit by company and year. That’s why $73 is sometimes $70 or $77.)
The second category is fringe benefits, like health insurance and pensions. These benefits have real value, even if they don’t show up on a weekly paycheck. At the Big Three, the benefits amount to $15 an hour or so.
Add the two together, and you get the true hourly compensation of Detroit’s unionized work force: roughly $55 an hour. It’s a little more than twice as much as the typical American worker makes, benefits included. The more relevant comparison, though, is probably to Honda’s or Toyota’s (nonunionized) workers. They make in the neighborhood of $45 an hour, and most of the gap stems from their less generous benefits.
The third category is the cost of benefits for retirees. These are essentially fixed costs that have no relation to how many vehicles the companies make. But they are a real cost, so the companies add them into the mix — dividing those costs by the total hours of the current work force, to get a figure of $15 or so — and end up at roughly $70 an hour.
***
Looks like the beginnings of 'it's gonna get worse before it gets better' are upon us.
Here's a piece of the article:
Let’s start with the numbers. The $73-an-hour figure comes from the car companies themselves. As part of their public relations strategy during labor negotiations, the companies put out various charts and reports explaining what they paid their workers. Wall Street analysts have done similar calculations.
The calculations show, accurately enough, that for every hour a unionized worker puts in, one of the Big Three really does spend about $73 on compensation. So the number isn’t made up. But it is the combination of three very different categories.
The first category is simply cash payments, which is what many people imagine when they hear the word “compensation.” It includes wages, overtime and vacation pay, and comes to about $40 an hour. (The numbers vary a bit by company and year. That’s why $73 is sometimes $70 or $77.)
The second category is fringe benefits, like health insurance and pensions. These benefits have real value, even if they don’t show up on a weekly paycheck. At the Big Three, the benefits amount to $15 an hour or so.
Add the two together, and you get the true hourly compensation of Detroit’s unionized work force: roughly $55 an hour. It’s a little more than twice as much as the typical American worker makes, benefits included. The more relevant comparison, though, is probably to Honda’s or Toyota’s (nonunionized) workers. They make in the neighborhood of $45 an hour, and most of the gap stems from their less generous benefits.
The third category is the cost of benefits for retirees. These are essentially fixed costs that have no relation to how many vehicles the companies make. But they are a real cost, so the companies add them into the mix — dividing those costs by the total hours of the current work force, to get a figure of $15 or so — and end up at roughly $70 an hour.
***
Looks like the beginnings of 'it's gonna get worse before it gets better' are upon us.
Ms PatriYacht
Charter Member
When the average person hears $73.00 they think of that per hour, then they think about what they earn per hour, not what they earn based on overtime. So I find it interesting that the figure of $55 also includes overtime. When they say that's double what the average US worker makes are they including overtime, I doubt it.
The worst part of this type of reporting is that the misunderstanding it creates, along with calling it a bailout, instead of a loan is the route of why so many American's do not want to extend a helping hand to our Auto Industry
Like someone said earlier the car companies ran alot of overtime because they wanted to keep from hiring people. So because of that that the figure quoted in the media is skewed in a way that once again makes the union workers look like they are earning more per hour then the really are. Even at the enflated rate of $73 and hour the cost of labor contributes to no more than 10% of the cost of the car, so if they cut that cost by a few percents in the scheme of things it will not make a bit of differnce to the survival of the US auto companies. Survival is really dependent on selling more cars, and selling cars are dependent on the economy and the perception of the US car. If we did not have the credit crisis and record high unemployement I doubt there would have been a need to ask for a loan. I am in industrial sales and sell products that go to suppliers of the automotive industry and other industries as well, my phone and the phones of my competitors have stopped ringing. Resturants, stores, dry cleaners, dentists, hair salons, hospitals, boat companies, concert halls, and just about every other type of business is on the decline and this is while the majority of auto workers are still employeed. I can't help but feel that you ain't seen nothing compared to what this whole countries economy will be like if two of the US auto makers go down, that's why I am baffled that so many of you are routing for that to happen
The worst part of this type of reporting is that the misunderstanding it creates, along with calling it a bailout, instead of a loan is the route of why so many American's do not want to extend a helping hand to our Auto Industry
Like someone said earlier the car companies ran alot of overtime because they wanted to keep from hiring people. So because of that that the figure quoted in the media is skewed in a way that once again makes the union workers look like they are earning more per hour then the really are. Even at the enflated rate of $73 and hour the cost of labor contributes to no more than 10% of the cost of the car, so if they cut that cost by a few percents in the scheme of things it will not make a bit of differnce to the survival of the US auto companies. Survival is really dependent on selling more cars, and selling cars are dependent on the economy and the perception of the US car. If we did not have the credit crisis and record high unemployement I doubt there would have been a need to ask for a loan. I am in industrial sales and sell products that go to suppliers of the automotive industry and other industries as well, my phone and the phones of my competitors have stopped ringing. Resturants, stores, dry cleaners, dentists, hair salons, hospitals, boat companies, concert halls, and just about every other type of business is on the decline and this is while the majority of auto workers are still employeed. I can't help but feel that you ain't seen nothing compared to what this whole countries economy will be like if two of the US auto makers go down, that's why I am baffled that so many of you are routing for that to happen
Ms PatriYacht
Charter Member
At times like this, I really wished I was my parents’ age, 80 or even older. I think I am to patriotic about our country to exist now. It bothers me that the US government and a lot of American's have decided that it is fashionable to demand that our workers be paid based on what foreign companies pay their workers, today it's Japan next it will be Mexico. We have become a nation of greed and we could care less how it will eventually hurt our economy. We have all become so used to filling our houses with audio equipment, appliances, clothing and nick knacks from China, Japan, Korea, and Mexico, and have become used to people in India solving our customer service problems that today's average US citizen could care less about preserving, supporting, and fighting to save an industry that is one of back bones of our country’s economy. America was once a county of industrialists, people that built something, a country that produced goods, now we have become a country of consumers, of spoiled people that buy stuff and could care less about where it came from, we only seem to care about how much more we can buy and how much cheaper we can get it for. So why not let the auto companies fail, like everything else we buy will just fill our garages with foreign cars. So let's continue to have an open door trade policy and bring in 10 times more goods then go out, after all it good for us because everything we buy will be cheaper. Let's continue to put tons of restrictions on companies here so we can feel good about having a green planet and it will not cost us more because we will just buy goods from countries that don't give a dam about the environment because of course those items will be cheaper. Let's continue to bash our countries cars when we actually build some of the best in the world. Let's force everyone to drive crackerbox cars, because Al Gore says driving an SUV is bad for global warming and we don't have the energy to fuel them. Gee I just can't wait for the future when we don’t make anything here, and like someone else said we all just serve each other.
"...could not care less..."
(sorry, small pet peave)
I think you may be missing the point with the pay thing. We do not demand that people be paid based on what foreign people get paid, what we need is to see more parity with regard to a person's merit, education, and true net worth to a company. Sorry, when your average engineer, PHD, and skilled technician gets paid less than a union auto wrench-turner or button-pusher, we have a problem. When the nation's backbone industrial core is being raped by these people via their unions, we have a problem. When we are asked to pay for the these inequities with tax-funded bailouts, there's a problem. When the majority of the nation's workforce is responsible for their own retirements and health care, yet your typical union high school grad is not - and then they demand further bailouts, there's a huge problem.
And let's not dwell on this $73 figure. It is what it is, I don't think Forbes made this sht up. It's 73 bucks an hour...insurance and pension are not intangible. They are real costs, and they're real benefits that that union employee is reaping. Unions raped and pillaged the American Auto industry to the point of exhaustion, and now they want us to pay for it. NOPE! Let them go bankrupt and restructure. The only salvation will be allowing all those contracts to be voided so we can start over.
(sorry, small pet peave)
I think you may be missing the point with the pay thing. We do not demand that people be paid based on what foreign people get paid, what we need is to see more parity with regard to a person's merit, education, and true net worth to a company. Sorry, when your average engineer, PHD, and skilled technician gets paid less than a union auto wrench-turner or button-pusher, we have a problem. When the nation's backbone industrial core is being raped by these people via their unions, we have a problem. When we are asked to pay for the these inequities with tax-funded bailouts, there's a problem. When the majority of the nation's workforce is responsible for their own retirements and health care, yet your typical union high school grad is not - and then they demand further bailouts, there's a huge problem.
And let's not dwell on this $73 figure. It is what it is, I don't think Forbes made this sht up. It's 73 bucks an hour...insurance and pension are not intangible. They are real costs, and they're real benefits that that union employee is reaping. Unions raped and pillaged the American Auto industry to the point of exhaustion, and now they want us to pay for it. NOPE! Let them go bankrupt and restructure. The only salvation will be allowing all those contracts to be voided so we can start over.
gerritm
New member
I work with highly skilled people, union plumbers and pipefitters. I was a licensed union and non-union plumber for 30 years. No one makes that kind of money in wages and benefits. It took 4 years of school and on the job training to get my license. When I got laid off, that was it I was laid off. I didn't go to some job bank, do crossword puzzles and collect my pay. It is not the pay as much as the audacity that the auto unions think we owe them a living, a retirement, benefits,and a life long job. We don't. They themselves do. Jobs come and go in this country. Just like everyone else the union will have to adapt. Get educated. I was once told by a union auto worker that I could never do his job (putting some gaskets and bolts on the engine as it passed him on the assembly line). He was right, I would be bored to death, but a robot could, instead of modernizing the union contract kept him in that inefficient protected job. The point is they deserve a living wage based on their knowledge and skills not just the fact that they are in a union. The American people should not be placed in debt to float their overburdened contracts. Let the auto industry go bankrupt or file for chapter 11 and lets start over. Maybe then the auto unions will appreciate what they had.
Wrinkleface
Founding Member
I have a next door neighbor & 1 of my best friends that worked 4 GM in Lansing MI & was put in the "Jobs Bank" He got paid something like 95 % of his pay & all bennies (2 the best I remember) 4 about 1 1/2 years then slid into retirement from that! His only requirement was 2 go 2 some "place" where he could watch tv, play cards, sleep, whack off, whatever, Nothing in other words! He & other people would check in then bug out 2 golf & fish, whack off & 1 day somebody who was play'n by the rules pizzed 2 the powers that B about this crap! My buddy & his friends got all upset & wanted 2 FIND whoever "turned them in"!!!!!!!! Even his wife would tell him 2 shut up when he would start on a rant about this!!!! If there is not something wrong w/ that kinda Chit, please shoot me cuz I don't get it!!!
:rant:
Davidmnc
Contributor
I have a next door neighbor & 1 of my best friends that worked 4 GM in Lansing MI & was put in the "Jobs Bank" He got paid something like 95 % of his pay & all bennies (2 the best I remember) 4 about 1 1/2 years then slid into retirement from that! His only requirement was 2 go 2 some "place" where he could watch tv, play cards, sleep, whack off, whatever, Nothing in other words! He & other people would check in then bug out 2 golf & fish, whack off & 1 day somebody who was play'n by the rules pizzed 2 the powers that B about this crap! My buddy & his friends got all upset & wanted 2 FIND whoever "turned them in"!!!!!!!! Even his wife would tell him 2 shut up when he would start on a rant about this!!!! If there is not something wrong w/ that kinda Chit, please shoot me cuz I don't get it!!!
HE...HE....HE...he said "whack off.....HE.......HE........HE:03:
itilldo
Charter Member
I agree with you 110%....I work in the automotive sector as a Teir 1 supplier to GM and Ford.
I worked for the Budd Company who was owned by Thyssen AG of Germany. I dealt with the Germans and still do and I see how they patronize fellow German business. If it could be bought in Germany they bought from German. In fact I know a buddy of mine who was telling me how the Mercedes plant in SC was buying Exhaust systems from a local German owned shop down the road. They had the contract to build and sell to Mercedes well everything was going OK until the owner died and left the business to the family. Well they did not want to run it and sold the business to an American co. Well they lost the re-renewal for the roll over business and started to become shaky finically and in turn they sold it to another German company and then low and behold the New German company was given the contract to build the exhaust systems..
Germans by German stuff ,,,they support their country
Wrinkleface
Founding Member
Learned it from U ya WHANKER!!!!!!!!:26:
BBB725
Benefactor
Everyone can talk all they want about unions and what is fair pay, bottom line companies are in business to make a profit. If that means buying parts from Iceland or out sourcing work to Hooters, so be it. They are not there to supply jobs or taxes, they are in business to make money.
With all due respect. No. They don't make $100K - they make more. Last UAW guy I met made $117K with 7 whole years of experience taking advantage of the fuked up system. My Grandfather worked for Ford. Does not change my opinion at all. They are worth $14 per hr. to start. Plus reasonable health benefits - and no pension!
Offshore Ginger
New member
Hey guys back in 78 i worked at Malibu Iron in Saginaw Mich and was making almost 14 $$ an hour and that was very good money and lets face it guy's auto workers need to wake up and quit jacking off , for the pure fact they have had it to good for to long and to think i read somewhere on this thread that G M employees are only makeing 24 $$ an hour BULL$HIT , JUST MY 2 CENTS BECAUSE I AM WORKING ON SOMEBODYS BOAT FROM GM , GO FIGURE :seeya::seeya::seeya:
Buoy
Founding Member
Yep, that put's it clearly in perspective.
The Co. does all this "feel good" chit about special awards at 5-10-25 yrs employment, has an HR dept. in case an employee is offended by something, and calls the production line the "back-bone" of the Co.
Blah, Blah,Blah...
It was only a few weeks ago that my wife had to cut 13-14 heads, some that had been there as long as 6 years (the cut was NOT based on seniority).
Headcount was too high for current production, and we (the Co.) still need to make $$$.
The tangible good we provide is irrelevant to the shareholder.
While we still want to produce the best tangible good on the market, our true goal is to beat the competitor by providing a better product/service for the consumer.
BBB725
Benefactor
At a better price
Buoy
Founding Member
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