Auto workers pay and benefits

[gerritm]

I received this in an e-mail from my brother. Quoting Forbes magazine. No wonder they are begging for money if this is true.

According to Forbes:
Labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers.
Ford: $70.51 ($141,020 per year)
GM: $73.26 ($146,520 per year)
Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720 per year)
Toyota, Honda, Nissan (in U.S.): $48.00 ($96,000 per year)
According to AAUP and IES, the average annual compensation for a college professor in 2006 was $92,973 (average salary nationally of $73,207 + 27% benefits).
Bottom Line: The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more compensation than the average university professor with a Ph.D., and 52.6% more than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.
Many industry analysts say the Detroit Three, must be on par with Toyota and Honda to survive. This year's contract, they say, must be "transformational" in reducing pension and health care costs.
What would "transformational" mean? One way to think about "transformational" would mean that UAW workers, most with a high school diploma, would have to accept compensation equal to that of the average university professor with a PhD.
Then there's the "Job Bank"
When a D3 (Detroit 3 carmaker) lays an employee off, that employee continues to receive all benefits - medical, retirement, etc., etc., PLUS an hourly wage of $31/hour.
Here's a typical story....
Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.
"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I just sit."
Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers as demanded by the United Auto Workers Union - UAW - as part of an extraordinary job security agreement.
Now the D3 wants Joe Taxpayer to pick up this tab in a $25 Billion bailout package - soon to be increased to $45 Billion if Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton have their way.
The "Big 3" want this money - not to build better autos. No. They want it to pay the tab for Medical and Retirement benefits for RETIRED auto workers. Not ONE PENNY would be used to make them more competitive, or to improve the quality of their cars.
We ALL have problems paying for our Medical Insurance - but the Democrat leaders in Congress now want us to pay the Medical Insurance premiums of folks who have RETIRED from Ford, GM and Chrysler.
Not a good deal for us.
How about Chapter 11 - and getting rid of these ridiculous union contracts?

 

[Offshore Ginger]

I think the good ole days for GM employees are going to be comeing to a halt and to think they are asking for a bail out & will not take any wage concessions . I have to say at 73 dollars an hour these people are making more an hour then most people in the medical field who have a master's degree like a Respiratory Therapist , R N. , X-Ray Tech , and the list goes on . and yes let them file chapter 11 .

 

[yesrej]

I think the good ole days for GM employees are going to be comeing to a halt and to think they are asking for a bail out & will not take any wage concessions . I have to say at 73 dollars an hour these people are making more an hour then most people in the medical field who have a master's degree like a Respiratory Therapist , R N. , X-Ray Tech , and the list goes on . and yes let them file chapter 11 .

i agree, my soon to be wife spent lots of $$$ and years going to school to be an echo tech. shes not making anywhere near 73 an hour. it would be nice though.

 

[t500hps]

The Dem's do not want this bailout in order to help the big 3.....They are BEGGING for it to save one of thier largest political supporters....the UAW. If a big 3 company files bankruptcy.....all their UAW contacts become VOID. If the UAW looses it's contracts with a big 3, how much money do you think they will have to donate to the next political election?????

 

[Davidmnc]

I think the good ole days for GM employees are going to be comeing to a halt and to think they are asking for a bail out & will not take any wage concessions . I have to say at 73 dollars an hour these people are making more an hour then most people in the medical field who have a master's degree like a Respiratory Therapist , R N. , X-Ray Tech , and the list goes on . and yes let them file chapter 11 .

I worked in automotive parts manufacturing for many years. I have been in several OEM assembly pants, and have seen what these people are doing for there $70+ dollars an hour. If we as OEM parts manufactures had allowed our associates to work at the pace these Big 3 workers were working we would have gone bankrupt MANY years ago, let alone pay them $70 hr to do it. These people have to get real. I believe every one should get paid a fair wage for a fair days work. But what they are receiving is neither a fair wage, nor are they doing a fair days work! Get off your arrogant asses, and help your company NOW. Or you may not have a company to help this time next year! Not to mention the thousands of associates at the tier 2 and tier 3 suppliers you are going to take down with you.

 

[MOBILEMERCMAN]

The news said it failed because UAW was unwilling to take a pay cut in '09.

GM is supposedly the largest buyer of viagra. Go figure

 

[tommymonza]

Then let them fail. What a bunch of out of touch arrogant azzholes

 

[itilldo]

I worked in automotive parts manufacturing for many years. I have been in several OEM assembly pants, and have seen what these people are doing for there $70+ dollars an hour. If we as OEM parts manufactures had allowed our associates to work at the pace these Big 3 workers were working we would have gone bankrupt MANY years ago, let alone pay them $70 hr to do it. These people have to get real. I believe every one should get paid a fair wage for a fair days work. But what they are receiving is neither a fair wage, nor are they doing a fair days work! Get off your arrogant asses, and help your company NOW. Or you may not have a company to help this time next year! Not to mention the thousands of associates at the tier 2 and tier 3 suppliers you are going to take down with you.

I think the numbers are skewed ….most of the plants of the Big three are still up in the Northern part of the country where wages and the cost of living is higher and established plants that have been they for years along with a work force with 20+ years of service…Almost all of the car manufacturers (Honda, Hyundai , Toyota, Mercedes) that people compare wages too are in the South and are new plants with a work force of about 3-7 years. Lets look at the numbers in about 15-20 years at these plants then.

I agree that the a typical line worker in the Northern plants could be more production orientated, from what I have seen.

 

[Davidmnc]

I think the numbers are skewed ….most of the plants of the Big three are still up in the Northern part of the country where wages and the cost of living is higher and established plants that have been they for years along with a work force with 20+ years of service…Almost all of the car manufacturers (Honda, Hyundai , Toyota, Mercedes) that people compare wages too are in the South and are new plants with a work force of about 3-7 years. Lets look at the numbers in about 15-20 years at these plants then.

I agree that the a typical line worker in the Northern plants could be more production orientated, from what I have seen.

The plant I spent the most time in had been in operation since the late 60s, and the average time on the job was over 12 years. You are correct about cost of living. But these people in rural NC are making $10 to $18 hr, and it does not cost 4 times as much to live in Michigan as it does to live in NC. Sorry, I ain’t buying it!

 

[Ms PatriYacht]

I am not sure how Forbes arrived at those numbers, and I am really surprised that you people who I have always thought to be pretty smart are so quick to assume it is true. Do you really think an average union worker at GM gets $101,920 a year in benefits?

 

[Davidmnc]

I am not sure how Forbes arrived at those numbers, and I am really surprised that you people who I have always thought to be pretty smart are so quick to assume it is true. Do you really think an average union worker at GM gets $101,920 a year in benefits?

Does that include the cost of retirees benefits?

 

[MattBMiller]

Debunking Myths About Detroit
By John McElroy
WardsAuto.com, Dec 11, 2008 9:53 AM


Commentary
The debate about bailing out Detroit’s auto makers has hit a fever pitch. Everybody wants to weigh in with their opinion.

The louder they rant, and the crazier their claims, the more coverage they get.

Strangely, the media are devoting far more attention to the $34 billion bridge loan auto makers are requesting than the $700 billion bailout of the financial industry. How does that make us a better informed citizenry?

There always are two sides to every argument, but this discussion shows how much misinformation, misperception and wrong-headed “facts” are being bandied about. Let me debunk the five most popular myths I keep hearing.

“The Big Three build cars nobody wants.” Oh really? Somehow last year they managed to find more than 8 million customers to buy those cars nobody wants. And a good many are not just satisfied with their purchase, they are passionately devoted to them. The Corvette, Mustang and Viper enjoy cult followings. Ford F-150, Chevy Silverado and Dodge Ram owners are the most loyal truck buyers in the business.

“The Big Three build crappy quality.” Says who? According to J.D. Power’s Vehicle Dependability Survey, Mercury and Cadillac brands are rated ahead of Toyota. Buick and Lincoln are ahead of Honda. Ford is ahead of Infiniti. Chrysler and Dodge are ahead of Mini, Scion and Volvo. In fact, of the 10 brands at the bottom of the list, eight are imports. J.D. Power data show the Big Three have closed the quality gap.

“The Big Three cars don’t get good fuel economy.” Do apples-to-apples comparison of vehicles with the same-size footprint and powertrain, and you’ll see the Detroit Three match or, in some cases, beat their foreign competitors. When it comes to hybrid-electric-vehicle technology, General Motors, Ford and Chrysler have HEVs in showrooms right now. Only two of the eight Japanese auto makers make HEVs (Nissan buys its hybrid technology from Toyota). Not one Korean or European auto maker has an HEV on the road yet.

“UAW plants are not competitive with the transplants.” Only if you ignore the facts. The 2008 Harbour Report shows Chrysler tied with Toyota and ahead of Honda in manufacturing productivity. GM is ahead of Nissan. Ford is ahead of Hyundai. But this is a “How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?” argument. All of them are within one labor hour or so of each other. In other words, they all are extremely competitive.

“Those greedy UAW workers make $75 an hour.” Wrong. This figure includes total labor costs, which dumps the cost for all retirees into the equation. The average worker on the line actually earns $55,000 a year, which comes to about $28 an hour. With benefits, those numbers have been a lot higher in the past. But after last year’s historic UAW contract, those benefits get whacked down to levels neaerly equivalent to the transplants.

The Big Three have been going through a painful, gut-wrenching restructuring for several years. That process will continue. I’m amazed they don’t get credit for the significant progress they’ve made. And I’m puzzled why these myths persist in the face of the facts.

 

[Ms PatriYacht]

Does that include the cost of retirees benefits?

I don't know I did not write the article. The average wage for a GM worker that has been on the job for 20 years is about $24.00 so if you deduct that from the 73.26 that Forbes is claiming you wind up with $49.26 an hour left over for benefits. Do the math that is $102,460.80 a year in so called benefits. I know health care costs have risen but I can't imagine a union workers benefit package costing anything near that. So before allot of you continue to quote and spew your opinions about how much these lowly union workers earn, maybe you ought to think for a moment before you say something that makes you look like a fool.

 

[Davidmnc]

This does make more since. I apologize for misrepresenting facts about wages....assuming this is accurate. So what is the answer.....cut off the retirees benefits? Then they would fall on the general public to pick up. I don’t think there is a simple solution. I am in favor of government support for the big three, but I think it has to include support from the UAW, and the retirees.

 

[Ms PatriYacht]

Also the figure they keep quoting is based on the old package for the worker that has been around a lot of years, about 15 or 20 plus, you never hear them talk about or quote the current union contract for workers hired over the last decade, those wages are not just on par they are often lower then most of the foreign auto companies pay their people.

 

[Tommy Gun]

Regardless of what the correct hourly wage number is, the senate asked for:

1. reduce the VEBA (benefit package for retirees) debt (money that the big 3 owe the VEBA account) by half, and give the other half is stock. GM alone owes something like $21 billion to the VEBA account. The UAW agreed to this. Presumably if the stock increases VEBA can get the money back and the retirees will be paid what they are owed, but only if the companies remain viable and successful.

2. reduce wages to a level competetive with USA Honda, Toyota, BMW and Nissan (not Kia because their wages are even lower). "Competetive" was to be as determined by the Secretary of Labor (an Obama appointee).

The straw that terminated negotiations was that the Senate wanted a firm date in 2009 by which the wages would become competetive, the UAW said no. There is certainley more to it, but that sums up the basics. The UAW thinks the GOP wants them broken...they are playing chicken with the rest of America. This does not sit well with me at all.

 

[Tommy Gun]

GM just announced that they are going to close all of their production plants for 30% of the first quarter.

FYi if GM goes bankrupt, the VEBA monies owed becomes ZERO.

 

[Davidmnc]

GM just announced that they are going to close all of their production plants for 30% of the first quarter.

FYi if GM goes bankrupt, the VEBA monies owed becomes ZERO.

This is not good!

 

[BUIZILLA]

GM just announced that they are going to close all of their production plants for 30% of the first quarter.

there goes 30% of their dealers...

 

[Davidmnc]

there goes 30% of their dealers...

Lets hope not. There is alot of product on the ground.