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Intelligent Diplomacy and Statesmanship- Obama For the Win
- Thread starter jayboat
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BBB725
Benefactor
jayboat
Banned
Please tell me you are joking. :ack2: Your comments are so far off the mark I'm at a loss for words. :smash: Which administration were you watching for those last eight years??? It was more like he spent 8 years telling dick that he couldn't bomb them.
My 'win' comment in the title was referring to the diplomatic aspect of the events. We haven't won anything except a small diplomatic battle in a much larger war.
John Ward at The Washington Independent had this to say:
...Mr. Obama's disclosure Friday that Iran had a secret nuclear facility and that he had known about it since taking office introduced a new way of looking at many of his decisions since January.
"You have to go back and look at the nine months and all the moves he's made since then, and that he knew Iran was lying to him, and he still went ahead with it," said Joe Cirincione, president of the Ploughshares Fund, a Washington advocacy group devoted to eliminating nuclear weapons from the world.
"He played Iran perfectly, to isolate Iran, unite all the other countries around him, with an open hand to Iran, and then he springs the trap."
Not only did the president look strong, he looked cunning.
It feels good to have some grownups in the White House again.
phragle
Charter Member
The legend of the new messiah grows on a daily basis!!!!!
:rofl::rofl::rofl:
it's the second comming... the beginning of the end. It's all over dec 21,2012 anyways, right after acorn gets him reelected. :ack2:
jayboat
Banned
sure Jay , he told Iran......um.....I uh ....wanna .....maybe......he couldn't find his azz with a mirror
Well, Bob... here in America everyone is entitled to an opinion, even you. :ack2:
I'm sure by your metrics the dumbya years were a thundering success.
From the Times Online: Only wingnuts would view this as naive or weak.
Let’s review the evidence. In Iraq, Obama postponed any rapid withdrawal, keeping troops there as long as the Bush administration had pledged. While ending torture, Obama has retained key provisions for extraordinary rendition and has recently scored real successes in the terror war. Last week brought the exposure of what looks like the first real Al-Qaeda plot within America, busted by the FBI and unaccompanied by any Obama grandstanding or fear-mongering. Several Al-Qaeda leaders have been taken out by drones in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Obama has sent more troops to Afghanistan and ordered a full review of strategy from one of Cheney’s favourite generals, Stanley McChrystal. For the first time in two decades Israel does not have carte blanche from the White House to do whatever it wants in the West Bank.
On the critical test of Iran we see the Obama method in clarifying perspective. Look at the moves of the first eight months. First off, Obama makes it clear that America is ready to talk if Iran is ready to deal. The Bush-era polarisation is defused, revealing to global opinion that it is Tehran, not Washington, that is the problem here. The Bush-style warnings are instead given by Gordon Brown and Nicolas Sarkozy, further underlining the fact that this is a global problem, not just an American one.
Obama then goes to Cairo to deliver a speech rebranding the United States with the Muslim world. The following month the green revolution breaks out on the streets of Iran and, despite brutal suppression, the spell of theocracy is for ever smashed. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran’s president, and Ayatollah Khamenei, its supreme leader, are opposed now not only by the massive majority of Iranians, but by part of their own elite as well. Then Obama scraps the missile defence system in eastern Europe, pleasing Russia, and moves the focus of defence to the Mediterranean, pleasing Israel. Dmitry Medvedev expresses the view — never uttered by a Russian leader before — that sanctions against Iran may be inevitable. Obama follows up by being the first US president to chair a United Nations security council meeting, where he presides over a resolution calling for nuclear disarmament. The vote is unanimous. Again, he wields American power through the prism of international co-operation — and receives a rapturous welcome at the UN from many developing countries that would previously have stayed aloof. Again, he lets Brown and especially Sarkozy make the more focused comments on Iran.
On Friday he reveals the existence of a second uranium enrichment site — near the religious centre of Qom — and proves that Tehran is a dishonest negotiator. And this time the storyline is not America versus Iran, but the world versus a deceptive dictator, clinging to power via a coup.
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fund razor
Founding Member
I'm sure by your metrics the dumbya years were a thundering success.
Another ringing non-partisan endorsement of diplomacy and statesmanship, I see.
fund razor
Founding Member
Maybe Obama should speak with McChrystal more than once in 90 days. There is a war on, you know. I mean... I know that going on talk shows is important too.... but what with all that is going on.... and the obviously poor results of the amazing technicolor diplomacy plan (Iran turns up the heat in celebration of Yom Kippur) one would think that he would want to know what is going on in theater.
It was astonishing to hear McChrystal say on camera last night that he hasn't spoken with Obama in 90 days. He would be willing to, of course. When Obama finds the time.
This Iran thing is going great. Maybe he should capitulate like with Russia and call it collaboration. Russia will never join sanctions against Iran anyway.
What's next? Obama "reaches out" to Iran and they blow up Tel Aviv?
:USA:Maybe this administration will do the right thing after all :USA:
http://www2.debka.com/headline.php?hid=6288
US giant bunker-buster bomb project rushed since Iran's Qom site discovered
DEBKAfile Special Report
September 27, 2009, 4:08 PM (GMT+02:00)
Estimated location of Qom enrichment plant
Estimated location of Qom enrichment plant
The Pentagon has brought forward to December 2009 the target-date for producing the first 15-ton super bunker-buster bomb (GBU-57A/B) Massive Ordinance Penetrator, which can reach a depth of 60.09 meters underground before exploding. DEBKAfile's military sources report that top defense agencies and air force units were also working against the clock to adapt the bay of a B2a Stealth bomber for carrying and delivering the bomb.
The Pentagon has ordered the number of bombs rolling off the production line increased from four to ten - a rush job triggered in May by the discovery that Iran was hiding a second uranium enrichment plant under a mountain near Qom - a discovery which prompted this week's international outcry.
Congress has since quietly inserted the necessary funding in the 2009 budget.
All this urgency indicates that the Obama administration has been preparing military muscle to back up the international condemnation of Iran's concealed nuclear bomb program, its sanctions threat and his willingness to join the negotiations with Iran opening on Oct. 1 in Geneva. Tehran may have to take into account a possible one-time surgical strike against its underground enrichment facility as a warning shot should its defiance continue. In particular, the world powers this week demanded that Iran open up all its nuclear facilities and programs to full and immediate international inspection. Failure to do so could bring forth further US military action.
According to our military sources, the earliest date for the accelerated Pentagon program to produce a super bunker buster bomb mounted on a stealth bomber is December 2009 or January 2010. This too is three years ahead of its original schedule.
Pressed into service are two US Air Force research centers for work on adapting the radar-evading stealth bomber to the giant bomb: the Air Force Research Laboratory at Wright Patterson Air Force Base and the Munitions Directorate and Air Armament Center, both headquartered at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida.
Last month, DEBKAfile quoted Air Force Lt. Gen. Mark Shackelford as disclosing that the Pentagon had decided to accelerate the production of 10-12 giant bunker buster bombs in response to intelligence received of Iranian and North Korean underground nuclear plants.
http://www2.debka.com/headline.php?hid=6288
US giant bunker-buster bomb project rushed since Iran's Qom site discovered
DEBKAfile Special Report
September 27, 2009, 4:08 PM (GMT+02:00)
Estimated location of Qom enrichment plant
Estimated location of Qom enrichment plant
The Pentagon has brought forward to December 2009 the target-date for producing the first 15-ton super bunker-buster bomb (GBU-57A/B) Massive Ordinance Penetrator, which can reach a depth of 60.09 meters underground before exploding. DEBKAfile's military sources report that top defense agencies and air force units were also working against the clock to adapt the bay of a B2a Stealth bomber for carrying and delivering the bomb.
The Pentagon has ordered the number of bombs rolling off the production line increased from four to ten - a rush job triggered in May by the discovery that Iran was hiding a second uranium enrichment plant under a mountain near Qom - a discovery which prompted this week's international outcry.
Congress has since quietly inserted the necessary funding in the 2009 budget.
All this urgency indicates that the Obama administration has been preparing military muscle to back up the international condemnation of Iran's concealed nuclear bomb program, its sanctions threat and his willingness to join the negotiations with Iran opening on Oct. 1 in Geneva. Tehran may have to take into account a possible one-time surgical strike against its underground enrichment facility as a warning shot should its defiance continue. In particular, the world powers this week demanded that Iran open up all its nuclear facilities and programs to full and immediate international inspection. Failure to do so could bring forth further US military action.
According to our military sources, the earliest date for the accelerated Pentagon program to produce a super bunker buster bomb mounted on a stealth bomber is December 2009 or January 2010. This too is three years ahead of its original schedule.
Pressed into service are two US Air Force research centers for work on adapting the radar-evading stealth bomber to the giant bomb: the Air Force Research Laboratory at Wright Patterson Air Force Base and the Munitions Directorate and Air Armament Center, both headquartered at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida.
Last month, DEBKAfile quoted Air Force Lt. Gen. Mark Shackelford as disclosing that the Pentagon had decided to accelerate the production of 10-12 giant bunker buster bombs in response to intelligence received of Iranian and North Korean underground nuclear plants.
fund razor
Founding Member
Speaking of McChrystal....I really enjoyed the 60 minutes segment last night.
Nonetheless, they still didn't lay a finger on Iran. Isn't it conceivable the aggressiveness of Cheney was part of a strategy?
Iran is run by people. People do/don't do things for a very small set of reasons. Pretty much it boils down either pleasure/gain or fear as the motivator. And the balance. If we were to dump every weapon we owned into the sea, we'd be over-run before dusk. So strength may not be an all bad thing.
So Jay- what do you propose we do? Allow Iran to build the bomb? I don't think we disagree on the fact that Iran is run by Islamic extremists with a stated mission to see us all wiped from the face of the earth. I agree we can't bomb everyone we disagree with, but do we wait until Tel Aviv is incinerated?
jayboat
Banned
haha- you made a little cheney joke, right? Bush never had a strategery- he went with what his cheerios told him to do on any particular day.
I think we should keep tightening up the sanctions until the theocrats implode from pressure from the general population. It's coming, and sooner than any timetable they may think they have for developing nuclear weapons. (please see my previous post on the Iranian economy)
Tel Aviv will not be incinerated- they will be the first to take action if it comes to that. They will never let these moonbats get anywhere near a nuke.
Wrinkleface
Founding Member
Yeah, Mercury is gone!!!!!!
Khruschev scared the hell out of us. Was that bad for the Soviets? He appeared unstable- almost nuts. And totally unpredictable. And it worked. The idea that GWB had anything less than a complete overview of everything going on in that theater of operations is laughable. Just as it is to assume Obama is ignoring the military while looking for UN-style approaches.
You can't apply an American paradigm to Iran. Their unarmed populace is pretty much powerless against their government. And while there may be a pro-Western movement afoot, it's a long way off. In the meantime they continue to race towards nuclear armament. and they continue to talk about wiping Israel from the face of the earth.
On this I wholeheartedly agree with you. But if Israel does it, people have to take sides and there has to be retailiation. And while Israel has a significant conventional military and most likely nuclear capability, they lack the ability to prevent Iran from building a thermonuclear device. In effect, all Israel can do it wait for the bomb to hit them or they can pre-emptively attack Iran with an invasionary force. Or they can attempt surgical strikes at C&C and leadership. In all of those scenarios we have a major regional conflict and the massive economic ripple from the upset in oil supply.
In reality, we aren't going to be successful in getting Iran to stop what they're doing. They don't want anything we can give them and they're willing to take the pain of whatever we use to deter them. The only realistic resolution is going to come from us destroying their production facilities buried deep underground.
BBB725
Benefactor
Don't you have a tooth to pull or drill?:sifone:
LaughingCat
New member
Here's a rhetorical question for everyone:
Should people who attend tea-bagger rallies and fiercly complain about government spending be allowed to support a continuation or escalation of either the Iraq or Afghanistan wars OR an invasion of Iran?
Should people who attend tea-bagger rallies and fiercly complain about government spending be allowed to support a continuation or escalation of either the Iraq or Afghanistan wars OR an invasion of Iran?
Why not?
This economic stimulus we're spending trillions on is nothing more than a cleaning-out-the-closets of every Dem wish-list project. Most of it is absolute crap and has not had nor will it have any "stimulating" effect on the economy. So we're mortgaging our children's futures for basically zero return on the investment. That doesn't bother you?
Wars on the other hand are expensive but less expensive than global depressions. 9/11 cost us many, many billions globally and relatively speaking it was a scratch. Imagine suitcase nukes detonated simultaneously in NYC, Washington and a half-dozen major international cities. Or a limited nuclear war in the Middle East. Someone has to protect us- and that someone is us. and that protection is a cheap investment
Where do you get invading Iran from?
If you want to get pi$$ed off about something, as yourself why we're allowing the industrialized nations of this planet to take a free ride on the free-flow of energy that we're spending so much to protect.
This economic stimulus we're spending trillions on is nothing more than a cleaning-out-the-closets of every Dem wish-list project. Most of it is absolute crap and has not had nor will it have any "stimulating" effect on the economy. So we're mortgaging our children's futures for basically zero return on the investment. That doesn't bother you?
Wars on the other hand are expensive but less expensive than global depressions. 9/11 cost us many, many billions globally and relatively speaking it was a scratch. Imagine suitcase nukes detonated simultaneously in NYC, Washington and a half-dozen major international cities. Or a limited nuclear war in the Middle East. Someone has to protect us- and that someone is us. and that protection is a cheap investment
Where do you get invading Iran from?
If you want to get pi$$ed off about something, as yourself why we're allowing the industrialized nations of this planet to take a free ride on the free-flow of energy that we're spending so much to protect.
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