Turbine rigging

[tango]

:huh:

Wedge plate are only there for the alignment of the engine. The early drop box drives used a separate wedge plate to accomplish two things.

1. Compensate for the compound angle that occurs when you tilt the drives

2. Allow the engine to be mounted in a more level plane rather than the angle of the transom (this is the same on the #6 Merc)

OK great, so are you say'in it would be nice to have a flat transom area inside and out for the machinery and an angled transom for wave control and flyin re-entery angle, might it simplify the rigging ? :blush5: this could be done with 2-day's plastic's technology and re-enforcement techniques !

 

[BradH]

If the steering ram pivot on the hull were at the same height as the centerline of the socket, it would prevent change in trim when turning. This is not feasible as there is no more transom space that low outboard of each drive. Moving the the steering attachment point on the drive to a point on the trim ram in line horizontally with the current hull pivot would also eliminate the problem.

I wonder how it runs without the rudders. Is it a single piece or bolted on?

 

[KnotRight]

K.R. is the middle pic., of the AMF 51' Outerlimits V-bottom, in post 97, before the exhaust change ?

YES the one that swopped ends.

 

[KnotRight]

yes, we will discuss, but a few Coronas :ack2: will not tip the scales on the geometric analysis that will be required on let's say my super model against yours ! and again don't try to change the equation or direction of attack ! Bring it back to the total revolution prospective and pivot point and u-will sea the arc is inverted from the on-lookers view from the rear of the transom. Can any 1 sketch a cone shape 4-me with no movement of trim angle thru. the complete drives possible revolution/circumference !:sifone: and include/keep in mind the center to center/axis reference point of the cone's center line being the upper trim ram and fulcrum point of the drive. Ken what's up ? G Vac.soon, u-need it ? :biggrinjester::seeya:

My head is rapping from last nights adventure. I cant help wondering
if it is me. I cannot understand a word of this

 

[tango]

do you understand the word "vacation" have a blast in Cancun and take some pic's or better yet video, cya ol'adventuress 1 :moon::boobflash:

 

[tango]

YES the one that swopped ends.

And almost rolled @ the Cape Cod race several years back, ingested some sea water too :ack2: -- ?-kero only from now on ?

 

[phragle]

too much power for the boat or too much enthusiasim from the driver??

 

[tango]

low stern weight, turbines are lighter, improper drive trim height angle in relationship to a ventilated hull in a turn causes :svengo: and yes big seas and driver learning curve contributed as well, Luv AMF, but $ is not everthing "GEICO" is a top dog now that the bugs are out :driving:

 

[Rik]

:huh:

OK great, so are you say'in it would be nice to have a flat transom area inside and out for the machinery and an angled transom for wave control and flyin re-entery angle, might it simplify the rigging ? :blush5: this could be done with 2-day's plastic's technology and re-enforcement techniques !

??

Look at the transom angle. They range from (very old school) 12 degrees to 16 degrees on the newer models.

If there were no wedge (Arneson and Mercury) the drives would be mounted parallel to the transom and the engine would have to be perpendicular to the transom angle. Mounting an engine upward 12-26 degrees ranges from 7.5" up to 10" up on a 36" length engine. This can interfere with the engine hatch clearance.

So a wedge is used to lower the engine height, make clearance and make it so that the oil pickup in the engine pan does not have difficulty doing its job.

Transom angles are a strange theory. No one has ever explained them but from what I can tell, more angle makes a boat easier to get on plane. This is important for boats with a very high X dimension. Hustler and OL use a 16 degree transom.

 

[Rik]

If the steering ram pivot on the hull were at the same height as the centerline of the socket, it would prevent change in trim when turning. This is not feasible as there is no more transom space that low outboard of each drive. Moving the the steering attachment point on the drive to a point on the trim ram in line horizontally with the current hull pivot would also eliminate the problem.

I wonder how it runs without the rudders. Is it a single piece or bolted on?

Not exactly. The pivot point from the trim makes an arc but not in a bad way. The arc actually parallels the water with the list of the boat making the submergence more symmetrical.

The steering cylinder (original design) made a fixed radius when trimmed. The cylinder does not extend/contract when the trim is actuated thus the arc.

No rudders? As long as there is throttle there is vectored thrust. With the rudder setup, the drive just goes up/down no arc.

Rudders are cast on to the thrust tube on the smaller units. Twin Fins bolt on, and the larger drives they all bolt on the bottom.

 

[tango]

Rik, G is goin on a long, yet short term Vac. with that in mind U-I will have to battle the cyber space allotted to us, U-ON ? get out your compass, my heading is due West and thank - U

 

[tango]

??

Look at the transom angle. They range from (very old school) 12 degrees to 16 degrees on the newer models.

If there were no wedge (Arneson and Mercury) the drives would be mounted parallel to the transom and the engine would have to be perpendicular to the transom angle. Mounting an engine upward 12-26 degrees ranges from 7.5" up to 10" up on a 36" length engine. This can interfere with the engine hatch clearance.

So a wedge is used to lower the engine height, make clearance and make it so that the oil pickup in the engine pan does not have difficulty doing its job.

Transom angles are a strange theory. No one has ever explained them but from what I can tell, more angle makes a boat easier to get on plane. This is important for boats with a very high X dimension. Hustler and OL use a 16 degree transom.

and in re-trospect what is the angle on let's say a Sutphen or not to say an under achieved formula v-hull, talkin transom angle not "dead rise"

 

[tango]

??

Look at the transom angle. They range from (very old school) 12 degrees to 16 degrees on the newer models.

If there were no wedge (Arneson and Mercury) the drives would be mounted parallel to the transom and the engine would have to be perpendicular to the transom angle. Mounting an engine upward 12-26 degrees ranges from 7.5" up to 10" up on a 36" length engine. This can interfere with the engine hatch clearance.

So a wedge is used to lower the engine height, make clearance and make it so that the oil pickup in the engine pan does not have difficulty doing its job.

Transom angles are a strange theory. No one has ever explained them but from what I can tell, more angle makes a boat easier to get on plane. This is important for boats with a very high X dimension. Hustler and OL use a 16 degree transom.

come on Rik cut the BS read yoy post again, all engines in=general run in "parrallel" or in line with the out-bound gear not perpendicular. HEY, lets' get back to the steering arc. Can u=make a schematic of it in 3-D ? and yes I have observed some 90* gear boxes in some o'l alluminum cats.

 

[KnotRight]

OK here is the Turbine oil used.....Each engine takes approx 10 quarts.


It is a dry sump system.

The second picture is how they build them. They stack them.

The third picture is the planetery reduction assembly which takes the n2 down
from approx 24000 to 6600 rpm.

 

[tango]

6600 rpm out-put shaft to trans @1:1 into under-driven merc. # 6's with a drive ratio 1.35:1 would yeild a prop shaft rpm of Approx. 4950, and with a set of 5 blade 39 pitch wheels with lets say a conservative 9% slip. what speed guys should the GPS read ? remember these engines are approx. 1500 hp. ea. any estamates ? :sifone::sifone::sifone: !

 

[Sunsation96]

Yeah what tango said:iagree: :huh: Tango is far above me with the technical information,this is a very impressive project:drool5: as for speed I will say FAST very FAST. :sifone:

 

[KnotRight]

6600 rpm out-put shaft to trans @1:1 into under-driven merc. # 6's with a drive ratio 1.35:1 would yeild a prop shaft rpm of Approx. 4950, and with a set of 5 blade 39 pitch wheels with lets say a conservative 8% slip. what speed guys should the GPS read ? remember these engines are approx. 1500 hp. ea. any estamates ? :sifone::sifone::sifone: !

167 am I Close?


I,m thinking dropping to 1.24 and running the 37.5,s Herrings. Maybe 174.
A good question would be . Will dropping the ratio take some of the stress
off the drives?

Another question will there be enough torque to pull the 6600?
This would be approx 105% N2.

On T53 there are two speed controls one for N1 and one for N2.
The throttle is connected to N1. N2 is wired to the stop.

In a Helicopter The N2 is referd to as the collective.
This Collective does two things it changes the pitch of the Rotor
and it is mechanicaly connected to the N2 Speed control.

Ex. The pilot is picking up a load of logs and the n2 speed drops
he tweaks the collective to give it more power.


Now that I have confused you all Ill go back to sleep.

 

[tango]

1:24 will add load to the drive but increase prop/wheel speed rpm, that is why you are taking some pitch out, do ya have a set a wheels bigger than 39 available say 40 or so + ? in general it is better to spin a lower pich wheel faster as you suggest, but testing and trial and testing and trial will be the prudent way to achieve your max speeds, but then again is that the ultimate goal "top end" only ? :hat: - :toetap05:

 

[tango]

Brad, ref. your post #102

I wonder how it runs without the rudders. Is it a single piece or bolted on?[/QUOTE]

Brad, ck, post #77 the rudders are bolted on and with out them the boat would only steer by prop thrust "not good" note: there is no center rudder under the prop shaft housing in front of the wheel. also see post #110 from Rik.

 

[Rik]

come on Rik cut the BS read yoy post again, all engines in=general run in "parrallel" or in line with the out-bound gear not perpendicular. HEY, lets' get back to the steering arc. Can u=make a schematic of it in 3-D ? and yes I have observed some 90* gear boxes in some o'l alluminum cats.

Please read your post again and refer to a dictonary on what words mean. Transom is not the gear, nor crankshaft. Transom is where the drives mount to upon a boat (in reference to these drive units). A perpendicular line is a right angle to a surface which is what the engine would be if it were not for a WEDGE.:dupe:

Please look up a pic of a Mercury and an Arneson and locate and identify the Wedge.

No engines are installed parrallel to the transom. No engines are installed perpendicular to the transom (other than that Nissian engined drive package from South Africa)

Sorry, but I cannot draw in 3d

As Mr. Lennon says "imagine" if there were no steering cylinder. What would happen when the drive was trimmed up/down on a traditional Arneson install. Now add a fixed tube/bar to one side mounted to the transom. What happens to the drive when trimmed now?

Now read what I have written about what I have designed.